Abodes for Life?

topic posted Fri, June 24, 2005 - 12:55 PM by  Unsubscribed
Share/Save/Bookmark
Advertisement
by Douglas Vakoch, SETI Institute
www.seti.org/site/apps/nl/content2.asp

With the latest discovery of a “Super-Earth” around a dim, red star 15 light years from Earth, SETI scientists have been pondering the implications for their search for intelligence on other worlds. “This planet answers an ancient question,” said Geoffrey Marcy, professor of astronomy at the University of California, Berkeley, and leader of the team that discovered the planet, which is seven to eight times the mass of Earth. “Over 2,000 years ago, the Greek philosophers Aristotle and Epicurus argued about whether there were other Earth-like planets. Now, for the first time, we have evidence for a rocky planet around a normal star.” Team member Paul Butler of the Carnegie Institution of Washington emphasized the similarity between this most recently detected planet, located around an M star called Gliese 876, and our own world. “This is the smallest extrasolar planet yet detected and the first of a new class of rocky terrestrial planets,” he explained. “It's like Earth's bigger cousin.”

More:
www.seti.org/site/apps/nl/content2.asp
posted by:
Unsubscribed
Advertisement
Advertisement
  • Unsu...
     

    Re: Abodes for Life?

    Fri, June 24, 2005 - 12:57 PM
    Is it me, or does the rest of Galaxy look *drastically* different than our solar system? All this talk about extrasolar planets and possibilities for life, yet virtually all of the other solar systems we've been able to detect look radically different from our own -- most of which look completely unsuitable for the presence of life. A rocky planet 8 times the size of Earth? Gas giants in inner orbits?
    • Re: Abodes for Life?

      Fri, June 24, 2005 - 10:37 PM
      You mean suitable for earth life.

      Earth doesnt necessarily provide a constant for determining the existance of all life. If theres any constants at all, its that life adapts to the conditions it is subjected to.
      • Unsu...
         

        Re: Abodes for Life?

        Sat, June 25, 2005 - 8:15 AM
        I prefer to say that the only constant are the laws of physics. Biology at its most reductionist level is physics. In consideration of the utter lack of evidence for the existence of extraterrestrial life, and considering the Fermi Paradox, we should probably invoke the Self-Sampling Assumption which suggests that we are not just typical, but the norm.

        I suggest you read Ward and Brownlee's "Rare Earth," or "Perfect Planet, Clever Species: How Unique Are We?" by William C. Burger to get a sense of how the Universe's constants offer a freakishly narrow field for the genesis, maintainance, and evolution of life.
        • B
          B
          offline 121

          Re: Abodes for Life?

          Sat, June 25, 2005 - 8:34 AM
          < Is it me, or does the rest of Galaxy look *drastically* different than our solar system? All this talk about extrasolar planets and possibilities for life, yet virtually all of the other solar systems we've been able to detect look radically different from our own -- most of which look completely unsuitable for the presence of life. A rocky planet 8 times the size of Earth? Gas giants in inner orbits?>

          Again I argue that you need to look at the technology you have. THe ability to detect planets is a few years old. Just because we don't have the technology to find anything smaller yet does not mean that it does not exist. Like using a microscoppe instead of a scanning electron microscope and sayting that because we can't see atoms they do not exist.

          In a few decades with better instruments in space assuming we still are able to mount a space program we might find lights blinking back at us. But we don't have the resolving power to do that yet.

          Physics has changed and has remainded a constant. We have made the transition from Newtonian to quantum and maybe we will move to strings or something else. However the physics we know is far from a constant. It is not the physics of the Universe that changes but our understanding of it.
        • Re: Abodes for Life?

          Sat, June 25, 2005 - 10:48 PM
          "They may be small, but they're very hot. They're the archaea, an ancient branch of microbial life on Earth discovered by scientists in 1977. Unlike the better known bacteria and eukaryotes (plants and animals), many of the archaea can thrive in extreme environments like volcanic vents and acidic hot springs. They can live without sunlight or organic carbon as food, and instead survive on sulfur, hydrogen, and other materials that normal organisms can't metabolize.

          An enzyme, alcohol dehydrogenase (ADH), is derived from a member of the archaea called Sulfolobus solfataricus. It works under some of nature's harshest volcanic conditions: It can survive to 88 deg. C (190 deg. F) - nearly boiling - and corrosive acid conditions (pH=3.5) approaching the sulfuric acid found in a car battery (pH=2). ADH catalyzes the conversion of alcohols and has considerable potential for biotechnology applications due to its stability under these extreme conditions."

          "Thermotoga is an Archaea organism, which is bacteria-like, and is another example of a so-called extremophile. It has adapted to conditions in hot springs and hydrothermal vents, thriving at temperatures up to 90C. As well, there are mats of bacterial organisms that live in 160C temperatures around hydrothermal vents more than 1000m beneath the ocean surface"

          "For example, the bacterium Deino­coccus radiodurans (‘radiation-resistant weird-ball’) has been identified in cans of meat that had been sterilized (or so it was thought) with gamma radiation. While a thousand ‘rads’ of ionizing radiation is enough to kill a person, this bacterium can survive 12 million rads."

          "And another newly discovered species of worm, Hesiocaeca methani­cola, has been found living on the seafloor in the Gulf of Mexico—the only animal known to colonize methane hydrate ‘ice’. This crystalline mixture of water, methane and other hydro­carbons freezes into a solid only under high pressures and relatively low tem­pera­tures—surely one of the most specialized environments in the world."

          "...the toughest animals on Earth by far are the ‘tardigrades’. You can freeze them, boil them, dry them, starve them and even put them in a vacuum—yet they still bounce back.

          The form of these little creatures (mostly less than 1 mm (one twenty-fifth of an inch) long) has earned them the nicknames of ‘moss piglets’, ‘bear animalcules’ and ‘water bears’. With their stumpy legs, tiny claws and slow, lumbering gait they really do look like a microscopic bear.19 Around 700 species of tardigrades have been found in habitats ranging from the freezing peaks of the Himalayas to the hottest, driest deserts, right down to the deepest ocean trenches of the Pacific."


          If you assume that all life is carbon-based, you still are left with a habitable temperature range of 0 to 160C based on what we know about earth life. Radiation seems to be a factor that can be overcome. Same with high pressure. As well as temporary environmental deviations (120 years in the above example) outside of favorable conditions for survival.
          • Unsu...
             

            Re: Abodes for Life?

            Sun, June 26, 2005 - 4:55 AM
            precisely what type of abode are you looking for, and what are your values/criteria for life?

            Are you determining abode as one suitable for our and related species (i.e terrestrial) or just as space (somewhere)?

            As regards "what is life" and what is intelligent life..??? if you assume that a stone is alive (there are many factors that could be used to support this, not least the fact that it exists) and that it has access to super intelligence (i.e "Devine knowledge") then it need have no requirement to communicate with us either for purpose (what could it gain?) or by the simple means (light and sound) that we currently use.......

            perhaps it is us who are hidden (deaf, dumb and blind)???

            regards,

            GM23
            • Re: Abodes for Life?

              Sun, August 21, 2005 - 2:13 PM
              What catches my eye is the frequency of systems with planets in eccentric orbits. This brings up two good points - 1. How frequent is this? We've only seen a handful of systems - those with large planets orbitting close to their parent star. Are most systems actually like ours, or do they have these massive planets with close, eccentric orbits? 2. Is this going to happen to us? Is Jupiter going to go berzerk, fall out of orbit, and sweep up the inner part of our system? If we're unprepared for an asteroid collision....

              As for intelligent life on this super-earth, if they're there, I'm sure they can teach us a thing or two about building earthquake-proof skyscrapers :).
              • Re: Abodes for Life?

                Mon, August 22, 2005 - 8:47 AM
                maybe the frequency of systems with planets in eccentric orbits is due to our current technology for spotting far planets: regular orbiting planets might be much more difficult to individuate...
          • Re: Abodes for Life?

            Sun, August 21, 2005 - 5:13 PM
            I didn't know about the tardigrades. It never ceases to amaze me the ways that life can find a way to thrive.
            Finding this type of life is going to be impossible for the forseeable future, however. The only type of life we can find (currrently) is one that can send out radio waves. Even if the possiblities for life are greater than we assume, it took some very specific conditions to cause us to become 'intelligent.'
            Not to say that that couldn't happen to these wild types of organisms at some point, but when you think about the number of species that have come and gone from the Eartrh until we finally ended up with one that can transmit radio waves, it must be a very rare occurence.
            We may find life on Mars or Titan. We may not find anything until we've advanced far enough to actually visit these systems. Unless somebody sends us a signal, we're just going to keep debating for a loooong time.

Recent topics in "Fermi Paradox"