Tribe.net. Local Connections $item.owner.firstName http://fermiparadox.tribe.net/thread/7156c11b-8564-4f9d-adc3-ae5e993ff88c#338c593a-1b88-4ba9-a031-b5989035802c 2006-08-23T08:50:23Z 2006-08-23T08:50:23Z

I miss the robots that were 8 feet tall and practiced on onsite Judge,Jury, and Execution style social order.

$item.owner.firstName 2006-08-23T08:50:23Z PANZalt http://fermiparadox.tribe.net/thread/7156c11b-8564-4f9d-adc3-ae5e993ff88c#7be941fa-3258-4412-8590-958f81196dae 2006-07-13T21:19:03Z 2006-07-13T21:19:03Z

kewl article...wikipedia doesn't deserve it. I like the idea of self replicating robots and the point of a geometric progression. its the best way to colonize our own solar system, even.

PANZalt 2006-07-13T21:19:03Z Jack http://fermiparadox.tribe.net/thread/7156c11b-8564-4f9d-adc3-ae5e993ff88c#1f3cbf59-5ad5-46e0-8848-9e50b7f94a02 2006-02-19T23:56:32Z 2006-02-19T23:56:32Z

I hope you realize that you left out the prelude to James P Hogan's "Code of the Lifemaker" which is also printed in "Minds, Machines and Evolution" which should have been in the list of references. "...everybody has a bad day sometimes."

Jack 2006-02-19T23:56:32Z $item.owner.firstName http://fermiparadox.tribe.net/thread/7156c11b-8564-4f9d-adc3-ae5e993ff88c#8c8e3c3b-8202-4b64-81ba-7323a8d5b0ba 2005-11-16T22:44:08Z 2005-11-16T22:44:08Z

Actually, it could be something as banal as a small probe that releases self-replicating nanobots that eat away the atmosphere. It's what's referred to as ecophagy. See: http://www.kurzweilai.net/meme/frame.html?main=/articles/art0142.html?

$item.owner.firstName 2005-11-16T22:44:08Z $item.owner.firstName http://fermiparadox.tribe.net/thread/7156c11b-8564-4f9d-adc3-ae5e993ff88c#188894d8-0751-4fe1-93a6-a121fcbc8a85 2005-11-16T05:03:38Z 2005-11-16T05:03:38Z

I read the wikipedia entry and thought it was both informative and entertaining (an esoteric subject, I imagine). Did you consider adding a picture? Seeing as how it's a fictional death machine, the best you could do is an artist's rendition, but that would be great too. Why not include a panel from the Justice League comic you mentioned? (just a thought). Personally, I'm having a hard time envisioning what this thing would look like- something reminiscent of the Matrix trilogy. Regardless, I bet it would look badass.

$item.owner.firstName 2005-11-16T05:03:38Z $item.owner.firstName http://fermiparadox.tribe.net/thread/7156c11b-8564-4f9d-adc3-ae5e993ff88c#03e8f712-9dcc-4597-ae6c-c630fa65fb3f 2005-11-15T18:26:41Z 2005-11-15T18:26:41Z

Berserker probes are a fascinating idea. My first question was, "Why would anyone bother?" But I can see them being developed as a deterrent, never intending to be used, much like nuclear weapons (hopefully.) But, of course, things have a way of going awry. It's also hard to talk about berserker probes or make inferences as to what it means that they are absent without knowing what form they could take. In fact, the fact that life exists in its present form is not a good argument that these probes have not already swept the Milky Way. It could be that such probes were designed to eradicate a pre-existent kind of life, the only kind known to the probes' creators, and that they have indeed done that, creating a niche in which carbon-based life could arise.

$item.owner.firstName 2005-11-15T18:26:41Z Frozenstars http://fermiparadox.tribe.net/thread/7156c11b-8564-4f9d-adc3-ae5e993ff88c#92a2d39a-ffc6-4380-bfb3-3498b7ff2949 2005-10-29T01:07:36Z 2005-10-29T01:07:36Z

Who would need such a probe when nature itself has a power of a Hypernova?

Frozenstars 2005-10-29T01:07:36Z Yoshi http://fermiparadox.tribe.net/thread/7156c11b-8564-4f9d-adc3-ae5e993ff88c#8984f40c-da1d-47a7-ba88-46d7e6877cc9 2005-10-28T23:05:15Z 2005-10-28T23:05:15Z

Funny, I just finished "Revelation Space". It was only partially satisfying (since the author failed to finish the plot lines for two prominent charcters), but I found the overall premise quite fascinating indeed. IF we ever make it out into the galaxy, I vote we bring a team of archaeologists with us on our colony ship. Knowing who came before us, when, and most importantly WHY other civilizations were wiped out is going to be of paramount importance. As to your discussions of berserker probes, it's humbling to think that a big GRB could sterilize a chunk of a galaxy in a tiny fraction of the times posited above, without anyone having any evil intent whatsoever.

Yoshi 2005-10-28T23:05:15Z $item.owner.firstName http://fermiparadox.tribe.net/thread/7156c11b-8564-4f9d-adc3-ae5e993ff88c#1a81ac63-94b3-49d7-bd1f-d5894db6970e 2005-10-21T19:11:04Z 2005-10-21T19:11:04Z

This Wikipedia entry is now coming along nicely thanks to a number of contributions: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berserker_probe

$item.owner.firstName 2005-10-21T19:11:04Z Jeremy http://fermiparadox.tribe.net/thread/7156c11b-8564-4f9d-adc3-ae5e993ff88c#fa603a30-4fde-48e8-9a80-64e5ece5c752 2005-03-28T00:37:30Z 2005-03-28T00:37:30Z

We've had life on our planet for, what, 2 billion years? And the dinosaurs were around for, what, about 100 million? That could just as easily have been a sentient species. But with regards to the berserker probe, how do we know that humans aren't the only species out there ignorant, arrogant, and hateful enough to do something like this?

Jeremy 2005-03-28T00:37:30Z $item.owner.firstName http://fermiparadox.tribe.net/thread/7156c11b-8564-4f9d-adc3-ae5e993ff88c#27231e1b-3b2c-4493-a720-510b6a74b9a9 2005-03-27T23:38:26Z 2005-03-27T23:38:26Z

Fair enough. According to Lineweaver, planets started forming 9.1 billion years ago, so it'd be reasonable to state that complex life could have emerged btwn 6-9 billon years ago. That's still a serious chunk of time.

$item.owner.firstName 2005-03-27T23:38:26Z B http://fermiparadox.tribe.net/thread/7156c11b-8564-4f9d-adc3-ae5e993ff88c#f7223aba-b334-408d-9c3a-71d8d5092bf3 2005-03-27T22:03:31Z 2005-03-27T22:03:31Z

It is not fair to use the age of the galaxy in calculating your percentage. A large portion of the time after the big bang could not be inhabited by anything we would recognize or communicate with. And the changes that occur within the galaxy would have wiped out any intelligence. So the time to use would be a more stable period closer to the time that the planets started forming. That drastically alters that 0.08%.

B 2005-03-27T22:03:31Z Ian http://fermiparadox.tribe.net/thread/7156c11b-8564-4f9d-adc3-ae5e993ff88c#75d53ec8-5913-43f0-aaaa-3e3c2f614ff3 2005-03-26T02:57:51Z 2005-03-26T02:57:51Z

Granted. I'm just listing it as a possible deterent. Similarly you could envision a civ with prohibitions against creation of any automonous von neumann machine, aware (as we are already with no starflight capabilities) of the potential danger of mutation into beserker. scary topic. ever read the Forge Of God and Anvil of Stars?

Ian 2005-03-26T02:57:51Z $item.owner.firstName http://fermiparadox.tribe.net/thread/7156c11b-8564-4f9d-adc3-ae5e993ff88c#aca616f7-7eaa-4eec-ae10-9dae5470dd40 2005-03-26T02:20:47Z 2005-03-26T02:20:47Z

That's assuming there's such a thing as an intergalactic political collective, which I think extremely unlikely. More probable is the analogy of scattered and independent city-states.

$item.owner.firstName 2005-03-26T02:20:47Z Ian http://fermiparadox.tribe.net/thread/7156c11b-8564-4f9d-adc3-ae5e993ff88c#c4eab95c-4a86-472b-ade6-a91cfbe7e2e6 2005-03-26T02:14:54Z 2005-03-26T02:14:54Z

the diameter of the galaxy is approx. 60,000 light years i think. Another problem with sending beserker probes; what if you are incurring the wrath of said other civ with superior tech. We got all up in Iraq's grill for breaking a no-nukes rule. So one can envision that a galactic UN would aggresively punish any civ producing beserker probes.

Ian 2005-03-26T02:14:54Z $item.owner.firstName http://fermiparadox.tribe.net/thread/7156c11b-8564-4f9d-adc3-ae5e993ff88c#ba2d0d16-6031-418e-b4ee-59d6249ec2b7 2005-02-17T03:57:23Z 2005-02-17T03:57:23Z

Fermi calculated that any sufficiently advanced alien society should be able to colonize the entire Galaxy within 10 million years. While this length of time might seem extreme at first, it only represents 0.08% of the total age of the Galaxy, which is 12.6 billion years old. According to cosmologist Charles Lineweaver's estimates, planets started forming 9.1 billion years ago, so taking that into consideration the length of time to colonize the Galaxy is still a minuscule 0.1% of the total age of the Milky Way. In the context of this thread, just substitute "sterlization" for colonization to get a sense of how quickly an advanced civ could wipe out all life in the Galaxy.

$item.owner.firstName 2005-02-17T03:57:23Z B http://fermiparadox.tribe.net/thread/7156c11b-8564-4f9d-adc3-ae5e993ff88c#02581174-512b-48d4-9b24-20e111a0080a 2005-02-16T04:27:11Z 2005-02-16T04:27:11Z

That is the problem with using a term like rate. I can take it to mean the straight line vector from the starting point to the current furthest point. Or I can also take it as the number of systems consumed. Even as the number of systems consumed the galaxy is more of a pancake than sphere and the number consumed would not exponentially increase. I was to lazy to check the diameter of the galaxy and I will defer to your knowledge there.

B 2005-02-16T04:27:11Z Cosmin http://fermiparadox.tribe.net/thread/7156c11b-8564-4f9d-adc3-ae5e993ff88c#74f46928-43f3-4d9f-91b6-7a33dc1a1375 2005-02-15T22:44:17Z 2005-02-15T22:44:17Z

The galaxy s not 100 million years across, but (around, i'm to lazy to seek the reference) 100000, maybe 150000... so this would be completed in about 1 million years, for your 0.1c. As for the exponential increasing rate of expansion, you do have a point in that the speed at which the galaxy is explored will never exceed (in fact it will be lower) then speed at which one ship would travel from the homeworld to the farthest star. But i think he was refering to the number of stars being explored/number of probes. Maybe he could clarify it a bit (or you if you feel like editing).

Cosmin 2005-02-15T22:44:17Z B http://fermiparadox.tribe.net/thread/7156c11b-8564-4f9d-adc3-ae5e993ff88c#c30e8880-5fed-4bb4-9248-6f8641c6ed02 2005-02-15T22:08:28Z 2005-02-15T22:08:28Z

<exponentially increasing rate > I disagree with this statement. The rate of expansion would be the same it is the volume of expansion that is growing. For the rate of expansion to grow each generation of probes would need to travel faster than the last. Also Since there is no need for a probe to travel faster than light and there might be a good reason to believe that the probe actually travels at major sub light speeds it would tack much more than a few million years to cleanse the galaxy. I believe our galaxy is about 100 million light years in diameter. If the probe were to travel at 0.1c it would take 1 billion years at a minimum to cleanse the galaxy.

B 2005-02-15T22:08:28Z Cosmin http://fermiparadox.tribe.net/thread/7156c11b-8564-4f9d-adc3-ae5e993ff88c#d644bc00-d82b-4279-928a-96facb617538 2005-02-08T17:06:37Z 2005-02-08T17:06:37Z

Interesting... As for a reason for the lack of berseker probes (apart from the obvious answer - lack of civs to send them), i think they're just dumb from the point of view of the specie's own survival, because they'd operate on the dangerous assumption that they posses more advanced technology then any life they might encounter. I think it's reasonable to assume that (unlike individuals) civilisations would not act completly random, that their actions would make sense from the point of view of sociobiology (even if their motivations might not be always apparent). Also there's the problem of identifying life if we move from our carbon-based "organic" type, to maybe other chemestries, artificial and hybrid types.

Cosmin 2005-02-08T17:06:37Z $item.owner.firstName http://fermiparadox.tribe.net/thread/7156c11b-8564-4f9d-adc3-ae5e993ff88c#d0f0dc07-db81-4920-bceb-79d61459b7c2 2005-02-08T04:21:42Z 2005-02-08T04:21:42Z

I was inspired tonight to write up a new Wikipedia entry for berserker probe (suprised it wasn't there already): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berserker_probe

$item.owner.firstName 2005-02-08T04:21:42Z