Wikipedia: berserker probe

topic posted Mon, February 7, 2005 - 8:21 PM by  Unsubscribed
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I was inspired tonight to write up a new Wikipedia entry for berserker probe (suprised it wasn't there already):
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berserker_probe
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  • Re: Wikipedia: berserker probe

    Tue, February 8, 2005 - 9:06 AM
    Interesting...
    As for a reason for the lack of berseker probes (apart from the obvious answer - lack of civs to send them), i think they're just dumb from the point of view of the specie's own survival, because they'd operate on the dangerous assumption that they posses more advanced technology then any life they might encounter.
    I think it's reasonable to assume that (unlike individuals) civilisations would not act completly random, that their actions would make sense from the point of view of sociobiology (even if their motivations might not be always apparent).
    Also there's the problem of identifying life if we move from our carbon-based "organic" type, to maybe other chemestries, artificial and hybrid types.
    • B
      B
      offline 120

      Re: Wikipedia: berserker probe

      Tue, February 15, 2005 - 2:08 PM
      <exponentially increasing rate >

      I disagree with this statement. The rate of expansion would be the same it is the volume of expansion that is growing. For the rate of expansion to grow each generation of probes would need to travel faster than the last.

      Also Since there is no need for a probe to travel faster than light and there might be a good reason to believe that the probe actually travels at major sub light speeds it would tack much more than a few million years to cleanse the galaxy. I believe our galaxy is about 100 million light years in diameter. If the probe were to travel at 0.1c it would take 1 billion years at a minimum to cleanse the galaxy.
      • Re: Wikipedia: berserker probe

        Tue, February 15, 2005 - 2:44 PM
        The galaxy s not 100 million years across, but (around, i'm to lazy to seek the reference) 100000, maybe 150000... so this would be completed in about 1 million years, for your 0.1c.
        As for the exponential increasing rate of expansion, you do have a point in that the speed at which the galaxy is explored will never exceed (in fact it will be lower) then speed at which one ship would travel from the homeworld to the farthest star.
        But i think he was refering to the number of stars being explored/number of probes. Maybe he could clarify it a bit (or you if you feel like editing).
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          offline 120

          Re: Wikipedia: berserker probe

          Tue, February 15, 2005 - 8:27 PM
          That is the problem with using a term like rate.

          I can take it to mean the straight line vector from the starting point to the current furthest point. Or I can also take it as the number of systems consumed. Even as the number of systems consumed the galaxy is more of a pancake than sphere and the number consumed would not exponentially increase.

          I was to lazy to check the diameter of the galaxy and I will defer to your knowledge there.
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            Re: Wikipedia: berserker probe

            Wed, February 16, 2005 - 7:57 PM
            Fermi calculated that any sufficiently advanced alien society should be able to colonize the entire Galaxy within 10 million years. While this length of time might seem extreme at first, it only represents 0.08% of the total age of the Galaxy, which is 12.6 billion years old. According to cosmologist Charles Lineweaver's estimates, planets started forming 9.1 billion years ago, so taking that into consideration the length of time to colonize the Galaxy is still a minuscule 0.1% of the total age of the Milky Way.

            In the context of this thread, just substitute "sterlization" for colonization to get a sense of how quickly an advanced civ could wipe out all life in the Galaxy.
            • Ian
              Ian
              offline 3

              Re: Wikipedia: berserker probe

              Fri, March 25, 2005 - 6:14 PM
              the diameter of the galaxy is approx. 60,000 light years i think.

              Another problem with sending beserker probes; what if you are incurring the wrath of said other civ with superior tech. We got all up in Iraq's grill for breaking a no-nukes rule. So one can envision that a galactic UN would aggresively punish any civ producing beserker probes.
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                Re: Wikipedia: berserker probe

                Fri, March 25, 2005 - 6:20 PM
                That's assuming there's such a thing as an intergalactic political collective, which I think extremely unlikely. More probable is the analogy of scattered and independent city-states.
                • Ian
                  Ian
                  offline 3

                  Re: Wikipedia: berserker probe

                  Fri, March 25, 2005 - 6:57 PM
                  Granted.
                  I'm just listing it as a possible deterent.
                  Similarly you could envision a civ with prohibitions against creation of any automonous von neumann machine, aware (as we are already with no starflight capabilities) of the potential danger of mutation into beserker.

                  scary topic.

                  ever read the Forge Of God and Anvil of Stars?
                  • This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
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                    offline 120

                    Re: Wikipedia: berserker probe

                    Sun, March 27, 2005 - 2:03 PM
                    It is not fair to use the age of the galaxy in calculating your percentage. A large portion of the time after the big bang could not be inhabited by anything we would recognize or communicate with. And the changes that occur within the galaxy would have wiped out any intelligence. So the time to use would be a more stable period closer to the time that the planets started forming. That drastically alters that 0.08%.
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                      Re: Wikipedia: berserker probe

                      Sun, March 27, 2005 - 3:38 PM
                      Fair enough. According to Lineweaver, planets started forming 9.1 billion years ago, so it'd be reasonable to state that complex life could have emerged btwn 6-9 billon years ago. That's still a serious chunk of time.
                      • Re: Wikipedia: berserker probe

                        Sun, March 27, 2005 - 4:37 PM
                        We've had life on our planet for, what, 2 billion years? And the dinosaurs were around for, what, about 100 million? That could just as easily have been a sentient species. But with regards to the berserker probe, how do we know that humans aren't the only species out there ignorant, arrogant, and hateful enough to do something like this?
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      Re: Wikipedia: berserker probe

      Fri, October 21, 2005 - 12:11 PM
      This Wikipedia entry is now coming along nicely thanks to a number of contributions:
      en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berserker_probe
      • Re: Wikipedia: berserker probe

        Fri, October 28, 2005 - 4:05 PM
        Funny, I just finished "Revelation Space". It was only partially satisfying (since the author failed to finish the plot lines for two prominent charcters), but I found the overall premise quite fascinating indeed. IF we ever make it out into the galaxy, I vote we bring a team of archaeologists with us on our colony ship. Knowing who came before us, when, and most importantly WHY other civilizations were wiped out is going to be of paramount importance.

        As to your discussions of berserker probes, it's humbling to think that a big GRB could sterilize a chunk of a galaxy in a tiny fraction of the times posited above, without anyone having any evil intent whatsoever.
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    Re: Wikipedia: berserker probe

    Tue, November 15, 2005 - 10:26 AM
    Berserker probes are a fascinating idea. My first question was, "Why would anyone bother?" But I can see them being developed as a deterrent, never intending to be used, much like nuclear weapons (hopefully.) But, of course, things have a way of going awry.

    It's also hard to talk about berserker probes or make inferences as to what it means that they are absent without knowing what form they could take. In fact, the fact that life exists in its present form is not a good argument that these probes have not already swept the Milky Way. It could be that such probes were designed to eradicate a pre-existent kind of life, the only kind known to the probes' creators, and that they have indeed done that, creating a niche in which carbon-based life could arise.
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      Re: Wikipedia: berserker probe

      Tue, November 15, 2005 - 9:03 PM
      I read the wikipedia entry and thought it was both informative and entertaining (an esoteric subject, I imagine). Did you consider adding a picture? Seeing as how it's a fictional death machine, the best you could do is an artist's rendition, but that would be great too. Why not include a panel from the Justice League comic you mentioned? (just a thought).
      Personally, I'm having a hard time envisioning what this thing would look like- something reminiscent of the Matrix trilogy. Regardless, I bet it would look badass.
  • Re: Wikipedia: berserker probe

    Thu, July 13, 2006 - 2:19 PM
    kewl article...wikipedia doesn't deserve it.

    I like the idea of self replicating robots and the point of a geometric progression.

    its the best way to colonize our own solar system, even.